Elevator Systems is a podcast that looks at ideas and concepts from Bowen family systems theory in clear and understandable ways. In each episode, three Bowen-thinkers will discuss ideas from the theory beginning with their 30-second elevator pitch. Real-life examples will illustrate the topic, along with a discussion of what is useful, and takeaways and resources for further thinking. For people with zero to decades of experience with Bowen’s theory, these 30-minute segments are designed for easy and engaging listening, with the hope that listeners will take their thoughts, questions, and curiosity into their relationships.
DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.
Your podcast hosts
Dixie Vandersluys is the creator and host of Elevator Systems and is a Canadian Certified Counsellor. She currently lives in Manitoba, Canada where she has an online private practice and enjoys pursuing further education, including three years of post-graduate training with Living Systems. Dixie is a new member of the faculty of Living Systems.
Katie White is a couple and family therapist who has been working clinically for over 20 years in the US, Australia and now in Vancouver, Canada. She has been studying and using Bowen Theory in her work and family life for 12 years. She is the Executive Director of Living Systems, where she also teaches and supervises trainees, as well as having a private practice for individuals, couples and families.
Who is Murray Bowen, and what is Bowen Family Systems Theory?
This pre-season episode tells who we are and what to expect in the podcast this season. Brief introductions to Murray Bowen and Bowen family systems theory through 30 second elevator pitches will be given and why our hosts think Bowen family system theory is worth thinking about.
Resources:
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice: https://tinyurl.com/5yhxmna9
Catherine Rakow, Making Sense of Human Life: https://tinyurl.com/5ez865w9
Murray Bowen Archives: https://murraybowenarchives.org/
Dr. Michael Kerr, Bowen Theory Secrets: https://shorturl.at/a0Y9k
S1 Ep1 – Systems Thinking with Dave Galloway
This podcast episode looks at the idea of systems thinking, a central topic of Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dave Galloway has been studying Bowen Theory for over 20 years. He has spoken at conferences, is an instructor, and writes on systems thinking. He is certified as Family Enterprise Advisor and Clear Leadership trainer. Having worked in the software industry for decades in leadership roles he has seen the impact of emotional functioning in work systems. Dave lives in Vancouver, BC and is on the faculty of Living Systems.
Resources:
Kathleen Smith’s newsletter, “When You’re Too Close to the Problem: https://theanxiousoverachiever.substack.com/p/when-youre-too-close-to-the-problem
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice: https://tinyurl.com/5yhxmna9
Questions for continued thinking:
What are 5 or 10 other explanations you could make up for what’s happening here? If your parent/partner/kid were in the room, what would they have to say about this?
S1 Ep2 – Togetherness with Dr. Kathleen Smith
This podcast episode looks at the idea of togetherness, a way Bowen family systems theory describes how people operate in relation to the group. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Kathleen Smith is a licensed therapist and writer who lives in Washington, DC. Her books include Everything Isn’t Terrible and True to You: A Therapist’s Guide to Stop Pleasing Others and Start Being Yourself. She is an associate faculty member at the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family and author of the popular newsletter, The Anxious Overachiever.
Resources:
Ashley Ward, The Social Life of Animals: https://tinyurl.com/y75n3vnz
Cacioppo & Patrick – Loneliness: Human Nature and the Need for Social Connection.
Podcast – How Family Dynamics Play Out At Work: Morra Aarons-Mele. The Anxious Achiever. Nov 8, 2021.
Kathleen Smith’s newsletter: https://theanxiousoverachiever.substack.com/
Kathleen Smith, Everything Isn’t Terrible: https://shorturl.at/uxl9l
Kathleen Smith, True To You: https://shorturl.at/5qyUT
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice: https://tinyurl.com/5yhxmna9
S1 Ep3 – Anxiety with Dave Galloway
This podcast episode looks at the topic of anxiety and the difference Bowen family systems theory sees between acute anxiety and chronic anxiety. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along
with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dave Galloway has been studying Bowen Theory for over 20 years. He has spoken at conferences, is an instructor, and writes on systems thinking. He is certified as Family Enterprise Advisor and Clear Leadership trainer. Having worked in the software industry for decades in leadership roles he has seen the impact of emotional functioning in work systems. Dave lives in Vancouver, BC and is on the faculty of Living Systems.
Resources:
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice: https://tinyurl.com/5yhxmna9
Dr. Michael Kerr, Family Evaluation: https://shorturl.at/QBpEu
Dr. Michael Kerr, Bowen Theory Secrets: https://shorturl.at/a0Y9k
Kathleen Smith, Everything Isn’t Terrible: https://shorturl.at/uxl9l
Bowen-Kerr Interview #4: Interview #4
S1 Ep4 Relationship patterns (Conflict) with Dr. Kathleen Smith
This podcast episode examines the four relationship patterns described in Bowen family systems theory, focusing especially on the pattern of conflict. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along with examples, what they find important about it, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Kathleen Smith is a licensed therapist and writer who lives in Washington, DC. Her books include Everything Isn’t Terrible and True to You: A Therapist’s Guide to Stop Pleasing Others and Start Being Yourself. She is an associate faculty member at the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family and author of the popular newsletter, The Anxious Overachiever.
Resources:
Kathleen Smith newsletter, “Let’s Play Family Anxiety Bingo”
https://theanxiousoverachiever.substa…
Honeybee Democracy: https://tinyurl.com/2s4t8ks5
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice: https://tinyurl.com/5yhxmna9
Dr. Michael Kerr, Family Evaluation: https://shorturl.at/QBpEu
Dr. Michael Kerr, Bowen Theory Secrets: https://shorturl.at/a0Y9k
Kathleen Smith, Everything Isn’t Terrible: https://shorturl.at/uxl9l
Kathleen Smith, True To You: https://shorturl.at/5qyUT
S1 Ep5 Distance with Jenny Brown
This podcast episode looks at the relationship pattern of distance in Bowen family systems theory, from avoiding eye contact to cutting people out of one’s life. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Jenny Brown has worked in child and family mental health and family therapy since the 1980s as a trainer, supervisor, author and researcher. She is the Emeritus Executive Director of the Family Systems Institute Sydney. She currently directs the Family Systems Practice and the Parent Hope Project. Jenny has published widely, including the best-selling book “Growing Yourself Up”, and the newly published “Facilitating Parent Agency in Child and Adolescent Mental Health – from Helplessness to Hope.”
Resources:
Jenny Brown, Growing Yourself Up and Parent Hope Project:
Harriet Lerner, The Dance of Intimacy
Harriet Lerner, The Dance of Connection
Robert Creech, Family Systems and Congregational Life
Notes of a Biology Watcher:
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice:
S1 Ep6 Triangles with Dr. Jenny Brown
This podcast episode looks at the concept of triangles, a relationship pattern in Bowen family systems theory that describes the interaction of more than two people in relationship. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Jenny Brown has worked in child and family mental health and family therapy since the 1980s as a trainer, supervisor, author and researcher. She is the Emeritus Executive Director of the Family Systems Institute Sydney. She currently directs the Family Systems Practice and the Parent Hope Project. Jenny has published widely, including the best-selling book “Growing Yourself Up”, and the newly published “Facilitating Parent Agency in Child and Adolescent Mental Health – from Helplessness to Hope.”
Resources:
Harriet Lerner, The Dance of Anger
Roberta Gilbert, The Eight Concepts of Bowen Theory
Peter Titleman, Triangles
Bowen Center, The Basics Series:
Bowen training networks across the globe:
Jenny Brown, Growing Yourself Up and Parent Hope Project:
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice:
S1 Ep7 Over/Under-functioning with Avrum Nadigel
This podcast episode examines the relationship pattern of over- and under-functioning in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest gives a brief elevator pitch for this idea, along with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Avrum Nadigel has been a marriage and family therapist for 25 years and has completed postgraduate training in Bowen family systems theory. He is the author of three books, “Learning to Commit, “It Takes More than Love: A workbook for singles and couples” cowritten Dr. Aliza Israel, and “Where Would you Like to Start: A Master Therapist on Beginning Psychotherapy with families” cowritten with the late Dr. David Freeman. Avrum has co-produced two podcasts: “Pop Parenting” and “The Love Examined Playlist” podcasts.
Resources:
Avrum Nadigel’s website and book links: https://www.nadigel.com
Kathleen Smith’s books Everything Isn’t Terrible and True To You
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
S1 Ep8 Family Diagram with Avrum Nadigel
This podcast episode discusses the family diagram which looks at the family across generations highlighting dates, facts, events, and the relationship patterns of Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Avrum Nadigel has been a marriage and family therapist for 25 years, and has completed postgraduate training in Bowen family systems theory. He is the author of three books, “Learning to Commit, “It Takes More than Love: A workbook for singles and couples” cowritten Dr. Aliza Israel, and “Where Would you Like to Start: A Master Therapist on Beginning Psychotherapy with families” cowritten with the late Dr. David Freeman. Avrum has co-produced two podcasts: “Pop Parenting” and “The Love Examined Playlist” podcasts.
Resources:
Avrum Nadigel’s website and book links: https://www.nadigel.com
Jack Butler, Ed., The Origins of Family Psychotherapy
Dr. Michael Kerr, Family Evaluation
Victoria Harrison, The Family Diagram and Family Research book
Timeline App: https://timestory.app
Patrick Stinson Family Diagram App
Living Systems Family of Origin workshop:
S1 Ep9 Differentiation of Self Part 1 with Amie Post
This podcast is the first of two episodes on the Bowen family system theory concept of differentiation of self. Part 1 looks specifically at the functioning of the emotional and intellectual systems within and between humans. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Amie Post lives in Baltimore MD where she is a Marriage and Family Therapist and has a practice coaching, consulting and educating based on Bowen theory. She was recently named as the Interim CEO/President of the Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York, and previously was the Executive Director at the Family Crisis Center of Baltimore County. She began studying Bowen theory in 2001 and is a member of the board of directors and on faculty of the Bowen Center in Washington DC.
Resources:
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
Bowen theory coaches in Canada: here
Bowen theory coaches around the world: here
<Other centers in the Bowen network: here
Kathleen Smith, Everything Isn’t Terrible
Kathleen Smith, True To You
S1 Ep10 Differentiation of Self Part 2 with Amie Post
This podcast is the second of two episodes on the Bowen family system theory concept of differentiation of self. Part 2 unpacks the force of togetherness and the force for individuality that are at play within individuals and groups. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of this idea, along with examples, what they find important about the idea, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Amie Post lives in Baltimore MD where she is a Marriage and Family Therapist and has a practice coaching, consulting and educating based on Bowen theory. She was recently named as the Interim CEO/President of the Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York, and previously was the Executive Director at the Family Crisis Center of Baltimore County. She began studying Bowen theory in 2001 and is a member of the board of directors and on the faculty of the Bowen Center in Washington DC.
Resources:
Victoria Harrison, “The Belief Paper Assignment”
Family Systems Forum, Vol XXIV, No. 3, Fall 2022
https://www.csnsf.org/family-systems-forum/article-index/
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice: https://tinyurl.com/5yhxmna9
Questions & ideas for further thinking:
– Is this an individuality force driven thing or is it a togetherness force? How would I know the difference? What would you notice if this was different? What does the family actually do in response to similar tension/challenges?
– How do you want to show up? Where do you get pulled in? Where do you lose your thinking? Where do you take the same position as the person you are with?
– “Working on differentiation isn’t big grand steps. It’s baby steps and little tiny things.”
