These Podcasts
are for everyone.
Elevator Systems is a podcast that explores Bowen family systems theory in clear and practical ways. Each 30-minute episode features three Bowen-thinkers sharing their 30-second elevator pitch, real-life examples, useful insights, and resources for further exploration.
Whether you’re new to Bowen’s ideas or have decades of experience, this podcast offers engaging discussions to inspire curiosity and deepen understanding in your relationships.
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Disclaimer: This podcast provides general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not intended as counseling or therapy. The views expressed are those of the speakers, and any use of the information is at your own risk.
Your podcast hosts
Dixie Vandersluys
Dixie Vandersluys is the creator and host of Elevator Systems and a Canadian Certified Counsellor. Based in Manitoba, Canada, she operates an online private practice while continuing her professional education, including three years of post-graduate training with Living Systems. Recently, Dixie joined the faculty of Living Systems Counselling and Training.
Katie White
Katie White is a couple and family therapist with over 20 years of clinical experience across the United States, Australia, and now Vancouver, Canada. For the past 12 years, she has incorporated Bowen Theory into both her professional practice and personal life. Katie serves as the Executive Director of Living Systems, where she also teaches, supervises trainees, and maintains a private practice working with individuals, couples, and families.
Season Two Episodes
The Eight Concepts of
Bowen Family Systems Theory
Season 2: Pre-Season Episode
This pre-season episode introduces the eight concepts of Bowen family systems theory, the focus of season two. Each episode will include a brief overview, examples, practical applications, and resources to deepen understanding of the concepts developed by Dr. Bowen from his study of human behavior.
Resources
- Dr. Bowen “Chalk Talks”: here.
- Bowen Center and Living Systems descriptions of 8 concepts: Bowen Theory
- Bowen Theory Resources are here: Bowen Theory Intro
- Amie Post Differentiation episode: here.
Inside & Outside Positions
with Kathleen Cotter Cauley
Season 2: Episode 1
This episode revisits the concept of triangles in Bowen family systems theory, focusing on the dynamics of inside and outside positions within relationship triangles. Guests provide brief overviews, examples, practical insights, and resources for further exploration.
Kathleen Cotter Cauley, a licensed marriage and family therapist with practices in Virginia and Florida, has been a Bowen Center faculty member since 2012. She co-founded the Florida Family Research Network, taught leadership seminars, served on Catholic Church review boards for abuse scandals, and worked with guide dogs for over 30 years. She is married, a stepmother, and a grandmother to three.
Resources
- S1Ep6 Triangles episode with Dr. Jenny Brown: here.
- Kathleen Cotter Cauley’s chapter on stepfamilies in Peter Titelman, Triangles: Bowen Family Systems Theory Perspectives: here.
- Dr. Daniel Papero article in Family Systems Journal Vol. 19.1, “A Review of Triangle Theory”: here.
- Kathleen Cotter Cauley, Family Matters episode on Young Adults Leaving Home: here.
- Kathleen Smith The Anxious Overachiever triangle articles: here.
Nuclear Family Emotional System
with Amie Post
Season 2: Episode 2
This episode examines the nuclear family emotional system in Bowen theory, focusing on family patterns from a systems perspective. Guests share brief insights, examples, and resources for further exploration.
Amie Post, based in Baltimore, MD, is a marriage and family therapist with extensive experience in leadership and practice. She serves as the Executive Director of the Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York and previously held the role of Executive Director at the Family Crisis Center of Baltimore County. A dedicated student of Bowen Theory since 2001, Amie is a faculty member and board director at the Bowen Center in Washington, DC.
Resources
- Family Evaluation, Kerr & Bowen: here.
- Season 1, four relationship patterns/mechanisms episodes: here.
(see – S1Ep4: Conflict, S1Ep5: Distance, S1Ep6: Triangles, S1Ep7: Over/Under-Functioning) - Victoria Harrison and phylogenetic lineage: here.
- October 17-18, 2025 Living Systems hybrid conference with Amie Post
Information will be posted when available here.
Family Projection Process
with Dr. Walter Smith Jr.
Season 2: Episode 3
This podcast episode looks at the family projection process in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Walter Smith Jr., a licensed psychologist, is a retired Deputy Director at Allegheny County Dept of Human Services and former Executive Director of Family Resources. He is Chair of the Board of Trustees for Casey Family Programs, focused on improving and preventing the need for foster care. Trained in Bowen theory at Georgetown Family Center, his career centers on family violence and child abuse from a systems perspective.
Resources
- Dr. Bowen “Chalk Talks”: here.
- Parent Hope Project & podcast: here.
- Philip Klever, “The Sensitivities of Marriage” article, Family Systems Forum, No. 3 Fall 2006: here.
- Dr. Michael Kerr, One Family’s Story: A Primer on Bowen Theory: here.
Kathleen Smith, The Anxious Overachiever article, “Where is all your energy going?”: here.
Multi-Generational Transmission
Process with Dr. Carrie Collier
Season 2: Episode 4
This podcast episode looks at the concept of the multigenerational transmission process in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Carrie Collier is a researcher, lecturer and family therapist specializing in Bowen Family Systems Theory. She earned her PhD in Counsellor Education and has over 25 years of study and practice as a Licensed Professional Counsellor. Dr. Collier is on the faculty of The Bowen Center where she serves on the Board of Directors and was director for two years.
She published and validated a Family Unit Functioning Questionnaire used by therapists and researchers to gather information about families. Her most recent research on the language of nature in Murray Bowen’s archival papers can be found in The Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy.
Resources
Dr. Carrie Collier – The Language of Nature in Murray Bowen’s Writings: here.
Elevator Systems, Season 1 Family Diagram episode: here.
Family Matters – The Importance of Knowing Family History: here.
Dr. Michael Kerr, Bowen Theory’s Secrets: here.
Dr. Kathleen Smith – The Inflexibility of Family Story: here.
NY Times, One Set of China. Five Generations: here.
Sibling Position
with Alejandro Astorga
Season 2: Episode 5
This podcast episode looks at sibling position as a concept in Bowen family systems theory and originating in the research of Dr. Walter Toman. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Alejandro Astorga is a psychologist and family therapist who lives in Santiago de Chile. He has a Masters in family therapy and a Masters in law in children’s rights . Alegjanro is the Director of the Multigenerational Intervention Center in Santiago and a member of the Ibero-American Institute of the Bowen Center for the Study of the family. He is also Technical Director of Corporación Opcion, a non-profit organization that, in collaboration with the government, serves 15,000 children and their families throughout Chile.
Resources
Walter Toman, “Family Constellation”: here.
Family Matters episodes: “Sibling Position” and “Sibling Rivalry”.
Walter Smith, Family Projection Process: here.
TJ Therrien instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tj_therrien/
Coming Feb 11th, 2025
Emotional Cutoff
with Dr. Mariana Martinez
Season 2: Episode 6
This podcast episode looks at emotional cutoff in relationships, a concept in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Mariana Martinez is a clinical psychologist who has applied Bowen theory in her teaching, clinical practice, and leadership roles. After earning her doctorate in clinical psychology, which focused on child and family studies, she joined the Bowen Center in 2008 and joined the faculty in 2012. At the Bowen Center, Mariana directed the Family Clinic for six years, hosted the television show Family Matters, and founded the Ibero-American Institute to promote Bowen theory in Spanish-speaking countries. She is also Executive Director for Family Wealth and Culture Services at Wells Fargo Bank.
Coming Feb 18th, 2025
Societal Emotional Process
with Lois Walker
Season 2: Episode 7
This podcast episode looks at the concept of societal emotional process in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Lois Walker completed a diploma in nursing and then obtained a Bachelor of Nursing. As a young graduate nurse, Lois became interested in observing the diversity among families. Later, her interested was with the spiritual needs of individuals and families while working in cancer care and palliative care.
In 1990, Lois entered the training program in Bowen theory at North Shore Counselling Center in Vancouver. At the same time, she completed a Masters of Divinity at the University of British Columbia. Following this, she completed three years of the post-graduate program at the Georgetown Family Center. (This is now the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family.)
Over the last 34 year, Lois continued to learn and study Bowen theory. She has taught and provided clinical supervision in the training program at Living Systems.
Resources
Family Matters, “Political Reactivity and Self Regulation”: here.
Family Matters “Making Decisions in the Midst of an Emotionally Aroused Social Environment”: here.
Jonathan Weiner, “The Beak of the Finch” here.
Jacques Barzun “From Dawn to Decadence” here.
Elinor Ostrom, “Governing the Commons” here.
Deborah Gordon “The Ecology of Collective Behavior” here.
Coming Feb 25th, 2025
Differentiation of Self:
Solid Self & Pseudo Self
with Dr. Carrie Collier
Season 2: Episode 8
This podcast episode looks at the concept of differentiation of self and the ideas of solid self and pseudo self in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Carrie Collier is a researcher, lecturer and family therapist specializing in Bowen Family Systems Theory. She earned her PhD in Counsellor Education and has over 25 years of study and practice as a Licensed Professional Counsellor. Dr. Collier is on the faculty of The Bowen Center where she serves on the Board of Directors and was director for two years.
She published and validated a Family Unit Functioning Questionnaire used by therapists and researchers to gather information about families. Her most recent research on the language of nature in Murray Bowen’s archival papers can be found in The Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy.
Coming Mar 4th, 2025
Differentiation of Self:
Working in One’s Own Family
with Dr. Mariana Martinez
Season 2: Episode 9
This podcast episode looks at the concept of differentiation of self in Bowen family systems theory and what differentiation looks like in one’s own family. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Dr. Mariana Martinez is a clinical psychologist who has applied Bowen theory in her teaching, clinical practice, and leadership roles. After earning her doctorate in clinical psychology, which focused on child and family studies, she joined the Bowen Center in 2008 and joined the faculty in 2012. At the Bowen Center, Mariana directed the Family Clinic for six years, hosted the television show Family Matters, and founded the Ibero-American Institute to promote Bowen theory in Spanish-speaking countries. She is also Executive Director for Family Wealth and Culture Services at Wells Fargo Bank.
Resources
Elevator Systems, Season 1 – Differentiation of Self episodes
Ronald Richardson, Family Ties that Bind: Here.
Jenny Brown, Growing Yourself Up: Here.
Kathleen Smith, Everything Isn’t Terrible: Here.
Martha Welch: Here.
Robert Noone, Family and Self: Here.
Dr. Mariana Martinez, Seeing the Blindspot: Here.
Coming Mar 11th, 2025
Differentiation of Self:
Coaching in Bowen Theory
with Kathleen Cotter Cauley
Season 2: Episode 10
This podcast episode looks at the concept of differentiation of self and what is unique about coaching or therapy using Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.
Kathleen Cotter Cauley is a licensed marriage and family therapist and has a private practice in both Virginia and Florida. She’s been a faculty member of the Bowen Center since 2012. Kathleen was involved in founding the Florida Family Research Network and has been on the faculty of Extraordinary Leadership and Systems Leadership seminars. She has been on review boards dealing with sex abuse scandals in the Catholic Church. She has also worked with guide dogs for over 30 years. Married for 40 years, she is a stepmom, and a grandma to three.
Season 1 – Ten great episodes
Who is Murray Bowen, and what is
Bowen Family Systems Theory?
Season 1: Pre-Season Episode
This SEASON 1 pre-season episode introduces our podcast, offering a glimpse of what to expect this season. We’ll share quick 30-second overviews of Murray Bowen and Bowen family systems theory, explaining why our hosts find it worth exploring.
